(Interviewed at Wise Son’s on 24th Street, San Francisco, on January 13, 2026)

** Ian Tuttle: ** How do you... So I hate to use the term older, but compared to a 20 year old, how do you experience your changes in your body and your ability and what is it like aging as a competitive athlete?

**John Gill:** Yeah, that's tough. It's it's frustrating sometimes. I mean, definitely like injuries don't recover from injuries like when you're young and when your joints are made out of rubber, right? It's just like you break up the next day and you're crying, like it's definitely a process to recover from injuries or just like long events or rides or whatever. It's like, that's a process. But, you know, it's also, you have to sort of be comfortable with. You're not gonna be, you're not gonna be, you know, as strong an athlete as you were 10, 15 years ago, you're different.

So, like, um, I was thinking about on the way up here when I was a kid, like in San Diego, I used to race BMS when I was like 11 years old. And my parents were into it, but like, me and my friends were in it, so we would just ride our bikes about 15 miles from our house, our BMX bikes to the Kearney Mesa track, and then race all morning, and then ride 15 miles back on time. Damn. on a view of that spike, right? Uphills in San Diego. And we did that like every single day, right? It was like in the summer, right? We would just do that. That was like our thing. All, maybe just all day, every day we would ride by it.

Just sometimes I'm, I think, like, man, I wish I could get back to that, like, where I can just ride every single day. But then, you know, when you get older, it just, there's, you have to make yourself take recovery days and like, yeah, absolutely you just have to do it even if you don't want to, right? Like, yesterday, I got up, I was like, oh, I could still ride today, but I know I was gassed from the last 2 days. I was like, I'm just gonna mature it to the...

How much do you how much do you ride in an average week? And I know this can vary greatly, but let's say like across a year, what do you think your average week is?

Um, I'm probably... Yeah, it depends on what I'm doing. So like, so I would say 2024, I was doing tons of miles because I'm getting ready to do race across America. So I was probably doing 2 video week, 250 miles a week. And then last year, I mean,

What kind of time does that look like?

Uh, yeah, I mean, it's a lot of, it's, it's a couple of big rides on the weekend and then, uh, shorter than, you know, a few, you know, a couple of big, some big recipes and you came over like 5 hours, five, six, seven, 8 hours. And then shorter rides during the week, right? Just because do you work in daylight and all those things that are like 2 or 3 hours during the week? And so I'd probably get, when I was training for room, I was riding 6 days, we get 5 or 6 days. And then at least 250. I think 2024 I did like 11,000 hours when I was total. So I met it, yeah, that was probably or maybe at the 12. I think I did $12, including pream, right? That helped out much, but...

And then last year, right, I focused more on triathlon. So like last year I didn't get nearly as many miles. I think for the year I had like 7000 miles. So like, So I was probably only doing like 150 a week, 120 to 150 a week. And probably only riding like 3 or 4 days a week instead of week six, right? And so, but then I was also running. So I was like riding 4 days a week, running 3 days a week and swimming 3 days a week. So obviously some days I highly double. Yeah. So it gets, it gets in the other. And that's hard for me with age, right? That's where you really notice it, but AH is like really up to figure out a balance, especially with multiple sports, right?

Yeah, would you ever train all 3 in one day?

Yeah, sometimes. Probably once upon, I would be like a mock, trying to off along. But I wouldn't do like a full distance, so at least do like, you know, an Olympic distance or something like that. Just the body, like, understands what's happening, right? Because the hardest thing to try out on is the bike to the run. the brick, right? is just impossible. And like that, it's, it's such a funny thing because like your brain is like, it's such a like mental thing. No, no, no, physical. like this mental thing, like your brain is like, what are you doing? Stop. Like we just rode like 56 miles and 2.5 hours were cooked. What are you doing, right?

And the physiology of it is like you're not getting any blood to those muscles because it just focused on the blood. feeds to go to the spots for the bike. So for the run, you're not getting the blood in your muscle. So it's just this total mental, like, I just have to do this for like 2 or 3 miles and then my legs will come back. So you have to like get get easily.

That's crazy. I got to find my questions here. Um, when did you 1st start riding road bikes?

Not so funny. Funny story. So... So yeah, growing up, BMX, love BMX, love going up, Jones. That was my thing, as a kid, throwing off jumps. Like, it was just really just... There was like a group of us, neighborhood kids, right? Total, like, early 80s, exactly what you'd picture that to be in Southern California. riding in the canyons, making jumps. Um, And one of the crazy things we do in the, the, like winter, is the canyon behind like the houses we all live on in, um, have this little stream, and anytime it rain, it would flood and turn into like this river.

And we had found this like half pipe, old skateboard, wooden, half pipe. And one of the kids who was older, I think it was like 18, had a motorcycle. So he dragged this thing down and he cut the top off it, just made this huge launching ride. And we put it right by the river that would flood and when it would flood. We could just kind of fall on down this canyon and jump off that thing and then just try to do tricks in there and land in the water. Oh my god, so stupid. I mean, I don't know how we didn't die. But we'd also have like surfboard leashes tied to our bites and ourselves so we would lose our bikes.

And then after a day of doing that, we'd all go, we'd go home and we usually went to my house because my dad had like a awesome set of tools, right? So we'd break down our bikes completely. All the bearings repacked because we just like jump in the water, right? So I agree. I had this like love of like bike mechanics stuff too when I was a kid. And anyway, so when I moved to Texas, so I used to ride my bike to school every day, every park, like ride, ride, ride. I moved to Texas. Just nowhere to ride a bike, right? It's like 80 foot, right? There's just no button rides, bikes, so it's too hot. It's too whatever. Nobody rides back. I'm trying to ride my bike, getting almost run over and stuff. honked out as a kid.

So I'm like, and so in my brain, I didn't want to mess up my bike, getting hit by a BMX bike. that I like built over the years, right? It was like this awesome, like, GT, like, bike, and so, so I asked myself that, can I write, start writing your road bike to school? Instead, he had this, like, old, uh, 19, early 1970s Raleigh with, like, the frame shifters, you know, bottom, bottom bar, frame shifters, and they must have made like £45 pounds. I think it was a 12 speed, like 3 in the front and 4 in. It was just horrible. But, uh, but and it just ran horrible, but I fixed it up. Yeah, I think I'm gonna need chain on it. Like cleaned it all up. I got it riding for a, and then I just, then I fell in love with like speed. Right?

And so that was a whole new thing for him. So like went from jumping to speed and then I just was like riding that thing and I was like my, from like 13 until I could drive. I was going everywhere on that thing. Yeah, definitely into school and back, which was a few miles better. It was good times.

So you got into it earlier.

Yeah, I think I was like an 8th grade or yeah, I was 8th grade. I was surprised the only kid. I went on an old road bike. It's funny because I think back on it like it’s a piece of crap, but it's probably like an awesome vintage bike.

When did you get serious about road biking?

Damn, that's a good question. I was thinking about that, too. on the walk up here. You know, so like, um, You know, I think I'd always had a bike, like I've always had a bike, and then I'm like, whole life, I've always had bikes. And I don't know if I ever thought of myself as like seriously into it. I mean, I was seriously riding all the time, but I wasn't like competing or anything like that other than doing like BMX as a kid. And so, um, you know, just, it's more of, like, out of convenience sometimes, riding bikes. And so...

So something that, yeah, just I've had all kinds of bites. I had like that road bike forever, and then somewhere, I don't know how, I can't even remember when I got. I got rid of that in, like, my 20s and got like this mountain bike and I rode that forever. So I was like, I don't know, how'd that be for like 4 or 5 years? And then, um, then I had another mountain bike for a while. That would be road everywhere. And so it never really was serious about it. And then, um, And then, you know, I had kids, family, and that takes you away from all that stuff, right? So just, just, you know, probably 10 15 years of that. I just really was only writing a few times a month. surfing a few times a month here and there, you know, nothing serious. Um, and then, like, um, let's say, like around COVID, we got, like the family started riding bikes a lot, right? Because we're all home alone, all doing stuff, so we would just drive somewhere and ride our bikes.

And I had like a, probably what was the precursor to a gravel bike. It was like a cycle cross, but it had a flat bar, handle bar, but no suspension or anything, but kind of like a off-road. It was like a diamondback camera, what it was called. It was like sort of a precursor, like, crowded bike. I just had that for a long time. And then during COVID, someone broke in our garage stall, right? And so then we were frustrated. I was like, ah, just I just kind of gave up on it for a while. And for a while, probably a year, and then I started really missing having the bike, right? And I didn't realize how much I'd missed on the bike.

And so I've been looking, oh, I'm going to get a, I want to get a nice road bike. Like, I just, you know, start doing that. And so, uh, so I'd been him and on and on the fence for that. This is probably like 20, 21. Um, And, uh, I went out and I crewed for a friend of mine who was doing, uh, called, A Long Horn 500. So he did a solo 500 mile long corner 8 and then I was hooked. I was like, man, this is so awesome. I want to ride a bike like this, right? I want to do this.

That’s only 4 years ago.

Yeah, so like, and so I got home. I don't even know if I got home. I think I ordered. no, no, no. I got mom. I started researching, like, and I picked out word I was going to find. And so I got home, I think the next day. So I flew back from Texas, and the next day I went to the truck store there, like the super sale in the year sale, last year's models, right? And so I bought, like, a Trek Dwani. It was a pretty nice one. I mean, nice, like, I've never had it, but, and just and just went hard for them, just fell in love, like riding again, right? And so, um, so yeah, that's, and then, uh,

So you were 51 at that time?

Yeah, the gun, yeah. Yeah. And I would say, like, for me, it was almost obsessive because I think it was like a way for me to deal with a lot of what was going on. So, like, so, like, a backup, like 2018, right? So I was 47, I got diagnosed with bladder cancer and like had surgery to remove all the tumors, had 4 big tumors, like the size of hot balls, but they hadn't breached the bladder, which was like really good, right? It wasn't even considered necessarily stage one, which was awesome, right? But I had to do chemo, like, wealthy chemo washes, where they insert the keyboard via catheter. So did that every month for like 18 straight months. And so it's just it was horrible, right? It was just a horrible time, just in, in, uh, in, so like, um, and so, you know, I talk to people that survived cancer, um, in, in the, the sort of recurring theme is like the honest anxiety, right? Or, like, it's gonna come back, or either I have my family, how many young kids, and, like, so much anxiety, and I think for me, like, writing is, like, well, I was, like, suffering through that, like, anxious, and then I got that writing, and it just looks like this way for me to deal with it, right?

So I would just go, I'm crazy long rides by myself. You know, just, you know, I wasn't working much at the time, like my job was sort of, like, I mean, everybody's job was funky getting COVID, right? But find it like more of things, something else, and our bank was getting acquired, and like, somehow, like, I just slipped between the cracks and I had nothing to do, and I could just like take off for like 5 hours during the day. My boss wouldn't even notice or anything. So I was just like every day riding, right? I wasn't, wasn't necessarily thinking like I'm going to compete or do anything like that. But for like a solid year, just like at least 5 days, maybe 6 days a week, just going up crazy long rides. No, no power meter, no, like I did have garmin eventually, but at 1st I didn't have a garmin. I was just gone, right? And trying to find my way back home and all that stuff. So, um, some of that was like some of the most enjoyable riding was done, right? It's just like...

Yeah, it sounds like you’re... I mean, it's a fine line between avoiding something and and like coping and dealing with something and it sounds like you're maybe doing both of those things. I don't know.

Yeah, that so that's a really interesting point, right? I think about that all the time… you know, it is a fine line between obsessively doing something to avoid dealing with it or, you know, or is this thing helping me deal with this, right? And so, so I think I've struggled with that for a while. What is it, right? That I'm so… you know, all my family, they're like, you're crazy. Like, why do you do this stuff to yourself? You're an old guy. You’re supposed to just be enjoying life. Why are you doing all this stuff? And like, I don't know. I just love doing it, right? And so, so I think where I've landed recently is I feel like, eh, who cares which one it is? The fact is, I'm pretty happy. I love when I ride my bike, I feel awesome. And I feel awesome for the rest of the day and I come home and I'm a better person because of it. And so, yeah, maybe it's obsessive a little bit, but who cares?

What do you? So I asked, when did you start riding seriously? What is riding seriously?

Yeah, so so that's interesting. So my, so I'm a good buddy that I did or we attempted Race Across America, uh, with, um, he and I went to high school together. So we were like sports guys, like we both played basketball. He went on, played college basketball, and he's a college basketball coach now, and has been for a long time. But he's always been in, he's just always been fit. And we were both just kind of fanatics when we were kids, just always... I mean, he more than I, I was more of a, I was a little more edgy as a kid. But, I mean, it was the 80s. We didn't have parents that like monitored or cared or anything, right? So we just ran wild. But he was a lot more disciplined, athletically, but anyway, so, so I crewed for him in, in the Longhorn 500, and I love that, sort of, that, that idea of just pushing yourself way beyond what you think you can do. And so he came to visit, which was probably the impetus for all this. He came to visit for a couple weeks, just hang out, slept on the couch, and we just rode, because in Texas the heat was just awful in the summer. I was like, just come out to San Francisco, bring your bike. And we'll just ride. And we just, we rode like every day, like at least 100 miles every day. After the 1st week, I was like shot and I think he was too, but he was kind of like trying to play it off like he was not shot.

But we were doing all those, you know, classic North Bay routes. And then he left and I kept riding. He called me like 2 months later and was like, hey, John, you know, I was planning on doing Race Across America next summer. So this was 2023. He's like, I'm going to do Race Across America next summer. Why don't you and I do it as a relay team and at first, I was like, no way, Pete. Are you kidding? I can't ride my bike across the country. That's insane. He's like, well, we'll be taking turns, right? And I'm like, I don't know, man. He's like, well, what if we do this? We could just do Race Across the West, right? Which is just to Durango. Why don't we do that this year and then next year do Race Across America. He's like, why don't you just enter some local rides and start to see how you feel.

So I was like, all right, I'll try that. So I signed up for a few double centuries, like the California triple crown. Have you ever done any of that?

Yeah, I did a triple crown in 2004.

Oh, long time ago. Oh, yeah. So those rides are awesome because like there's like support, right? Aid stations. You don't have to think about anything. You just follow the arrows.

Yeah, you just ride 35 miles to the next aid station and get filled up on water and food. So it's a lot easier, right?

And so, so then I did, I did one. Yeah, I did the Carmel Valley one, which is like started King City, which is like central Valley and then over the coastal range in the Carmel by the sea. went down to Big Sur, and then back, and I was like, 0 my god, this is awesome. I was totally hit. It was horrible, right? It was like 16,000 feet of climbing into 200 miles, right? And so like, um, it's brutal, but but I loved it and like, actually the most brutal part I remember to this day, like, I think about this moment, is like there was this headwind after we did the outwork coming back in Big Sur, right? Right? When you're leaving Big Sur, and you get to, like, the, it's, it's, people edge, like, area, there was this 25 to 30 mile an hour headwind, and I was like, in my, like, lowest home gear, giving it everything I had on a -5% grade. Oh, you know, it's going like four. And I was like, this is the most miserable I've ever been in my entire life.

And it wasn't just me. It was like heavy, but I actually passed like 3 people. And I was like, I'm like, I can literally get off my bike and walk. faster than this, right?

So why do you, so I think anybody who's ridden a fair bit has had these experiences. Why?

I like to think that that's part of it and part of what you sign up for.

But why? And why come back to it?

No, no, no. I know. At the time, you're like, what am I thinking? I mean, it's certainly a question I was asking myself and I'm doing stuff like this, you know, it's like, what the hell am I doing? And certainly when we did race across America, there was moments where I was just like, you know, I, there's just no possible way I can keep going. Like, what are we doing? Why are we even doing this? And like, um, um, I think it's just, I don't know if it's a sickness. Or a gene, but like, um, it's definitely, you know, it is, it's like an adventure, right? It's like this every like ride is like this adventure. And so it's always different, even if it's the same route. There's always something different about it. And like those things just add to the whole thing, right? Those are just parts of the experience.

And so, yeah, I remember when I finished that, double, I was just like, I've fell in love with black, like ultra endurance stuff, right? And so, and then I did one like the next weekend and then I did one the next weekend after that. And I was just like, this is so awesome.

Yeah, but, you know, it was dry. I drove down to like Fresno to do one, drove, you know, like, this is crazy. I'm driving all the way to Fresno for long places to ride my bike 200 miles and then drive back home. Any normal person would be crazy, but yeah, I can relate to all of that. When you see my next question. Have you ever felt like road biking has negatively impacted your life?

Yeah, probably. I mean, it's, it's, it's probably just the time. There's been a few times where I'm just like, you know, especially on the weekends, you know, like my wife and I will both work full time, so we're both just all week work and work and work. Her job's a lot more in demand than my life. And then on the weekends, I go and I ride like 8 hours, right? Or 9 hours or 10 hours or whatever. And then I come home freaking gassed and I don't want to do anything else for the rest of the day except to lay on the couch. I, you know, there's, there's point inside, I think, well, it's, it's unfair to her about, like, you know, not being around. And certainly, it wouldn't have worked when our kids were a lot younger, right? And I don't even think I... I didn't know that too. Part of the reason I didn't even try... It's just a lot more demanding, but your kids get older. You know, as soon as they're in high school, they don't know anything to do with you anyway. I'd want to hang out with their friends all weekend. So that's a lot different.

Like, what you're describing, I mean, it sounds like a fender. Like some people do that on a Friday night and Saturday morning and you just happen to do it Saturday day.

Yeah, right. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah, so I'd say, you know, it's probably surprised that had impact at the moment on like marriage, like your, like my wife, like, is awesome about it, like, knows that, you know, I really enjoy, like, culture, endurance, life or whatever reason. And it supports me. But I think there's moments where she's like, 0 my God, can we just can we just go do something? Or can like, you just be here and like fix all these things that need to be fixed or whatever.

What? So you got into cycling big time, only about 5 years ago. When do you think you had cancer and treatment for that? But what was, I mean, this is a big time commitment. What was taking up that time before? Is this replacing something or is it augmenting something or?

Yeah, I would, so, so, um, so definitely I used to surf a lot more than I am. So, so, so I, so I've been, I've been surfing back in the, you know, the Bay Area here for like since, well, the 1st time I ever searched her was like 1994 on a visit, but we moved here in 2000. circumstance, right? And so I used to surf almost like probably like 5 or 6 days a week. And now I'm probably surfing like once or twice. Part of that, you know, juggling the time. in in in part that's like the crowds now and like ocean beach are like out of control. Like when I 1st started surfing here, it wouldn't be unusual that I never saw another person in the water. Right, right. And so, and then, like, by 2005, I'd see a few people in 2010. There was a lot more. And then by like, and then COVID, or before COVID is starting to get really crowded, but then COVID happened, all of a sudden everybody wanted to learn how to serve. And it's just, it is just made the lineups ridiculous.

And, like, there's an etiquette to surfing that a lot of people don't understand. Just like side time, right? There's etiquette on like how you pass somebody, how do you ride somebody's wheel? I mean, there's all the same, it's the same with surfing, but like the problem is it's like all these people aren't, they don't abide by it. It's just, so when it's crowded, I'm just like, I'd rather ride my bike, even if it's really dead.

It seems like, I mean, because I would bike here in the 90s and there was a cycling scene, but it was small… now there's so many more people.

Yeah, just in the last few years, I was thinking that, like, I mean, I just really started when I got back on track, I and started riding, you know, I was riding a lot through the middays, and I wouldn't see anybody, and like, I'd go ride, um, even Hawk Hill around there, and I wouldn't see anything the whole day. We didn't see a car, which was awesome. But certainly I'd go ride like Mount Tam or the watershed back in there, Al Paya, Al Paya, and... Because I didn't see anywhere yet now, even on weekday go rise, you still see some people. But it's good. I wonder, I bet work from home was a big change.

Yeah, so working from home to, for sure. Uh, do you have any goals for yourself right now regarding road biking?

Yeah, so hold on, think about it. Yeah. Call you. All right, we're good. All right. Yeah. So, so my, my long running, everyday goal is to get better at climbing. I think my strengths are descending and sprints. But my absolute weakness is fine. I'm just, and I know it's because I'm a bigger guy, mostly, right? That's mostly the power to weigh. Yeah, it's just, um... So it's something I just always have in my mind that I'm working on climbing. But, um, No. But, you know, I think as far as races go, I'm going to do the hoodoo chalk under this year, which is in August and August. Yeah. So it looks so awesome. That's what I want to do mostly. It's like, it goes through all the park like Bryce, Zion, Coral Reef, and the forest. So it's just like all these parts, right?

And I think I'm going to do it as a 3 day stage race. So you just start at 7 AM every day. So the 1st the 1st day is like 200 something like, just over 200 miles. Next day, it's like 170 and then the last day is 150. And so, but loads of climbing. I can't remember. I can't remember how many. It's a lot of freaking high elevation pilot, too. So you're never like under like 5000 feet and you're as high as like 12, right? So, I think that's, like, when I think about it, like, if I were getting it 3 days, that's totally doable. Like I can do that right now. But then I start thinking about the elevation and the climbing in elevation. It's like, that's probably the hardest part of that race, I imagine. Never done it before.

That's a good goal. What else do we have here? What are some things that you absolutely love about cycling?

Uh, yeah. So... So, Anna, so say, like, one thing I've, well, just like freedom into a really sense of freedom. And like, I think for me too, like, I think about, like, grown up, you know, 70s and 80s, like, you know, a kid about her, like, we want to supervise those kids. Like parents are just sort of checked out. And it was horrible for a lot of reasons, but it was also awesome for a lot of reasons, right? Like all the neighborhood kids would just, you know, just fleet to Rome and do whatever we were doing all the time. So there is a certain level of freedom that I've never really felt until I'm like on a really long ride. Now, sometimes I tap into, right? And I think of myself as a little kid sometimes and just how awesome that is. Um, and then just, uh, also, I'd say like, do you like this? Do you want a bike? Now, it's just crazy.

Like, my mom passed like a couple years ago, and just like, it was just therapeutic almost and just long rides, like long rides into the mountains and like, you know, you really feel, you can really concentrate on stuff. It's like meditative, right? It's kind of meditating. And so, yeah, it just helps you with that. And then like the obvious, like, you know, there's like just fights out of certain aesthetic. It's just awesome. You know, it's just cool to see all these different bikes and like look at everybody's bike and like, then there's like the whole like, above it, on a, like, clean my bike, get freshly waxed a chain, like, like a newly waxed chain, how awesome that is for like the 1st 100 miles of that, right? How like crazy that feels and totally silent by when it's going and everything's so... There's just all these little things that are just really awesome that stand out to me.

I like that. If you had zero constraints on your time, how many hours a week would you ride?

Oh, man, I would, I would probably have to force myself not to drive every day, but like, I would, I would probably ride every day. I forgot at least a few hours and then have like, um, about least like three, maybe 4 days a week where I do like really long runs, right? If, like, my wife is still working and I'm not, I would like on the weekdays, especially on the weekdays, because it's an awesome time to ride during the day when everyone's at work, right? I would just do like 8 to 10 hour day rides, right? I'd probably do like 3 of those a week and probably like 3 smaller.

So we were talking 40, 50 hours a week.

Yeah. So fantastic. That sounds amazing. That sounds like a dream. Yeah.

What is something you wish a non-cyclist could experience about cycling?

Yeah. That's a great question. You know, there's that freedom aspect for sure, but just just the, they're just a feeling when you're riding, right? It's like this, it's this crazy. So I was talking to somebody about like hiking, like a hike, like hiking a lot too. And we were doing a lot of hiking in Japan and I really like just like hiking, right? And I'm sick then, you know, cycling is kind of like hiking in certain ways, but it's like this way till that experience, like 10 times more than you would have known a hiking trip, but on bike, right? So in like a car, you miss everything. You're going too fast, so you missed all of the stuff that's going on on the bike. You're going, you're going speedy, but you're going slow enough to where you still notice everything around you all the time, right?

And so that's pretty quick and awesome, right? Like, go for a ride. You might see deer and like, you might see a deer in a car, but you're just zoom by on a bike, you're just like cruising by and gears checking you out, you're checking the deer out. You have this moment where you're looking at each other and you're kind of thinking, oh, well, what would I do if this deer charged me right now on my bike when I have to huff it or, you know, or whatever? So there's like, there's all this like interaction with the environment that you get to experience. That is a higher quantity than if you're just taking a rock, right? And, and is, and a not higher time, point on that if you're just driving somewhere, because you miss everything until you get there, right? People are so focused on. I gotta get there, right?

Whereas like cycling, that's such a different experience. It's, yeah, I'm going to get there eventually, but it's not off, this is all about the journey to get there, right? So like, I don't really care about when I get there. I'm just going to enjoy this part of it. And ideally, the journey is as long as possible. Right? And, and, like, you're just enjoying all these moments, right? And it's just so it's similar to hiking in that way, but but it's like, you know, exponentially in our experience. And then it's totally different than driving somewhere because you don't even care about that. a lot of.

I like that. Almost done. Have you ever taken a total break from cycling? And if so, why?

Um, I mean, like, just casual cycling, I guess, took a year-long break, but, like, I haven't since I've gotten really serious. I haven't taken any more than, like, 2 weeks has been the most just because we go on vacation. Or when you broke your ribs. Oh, yeah, broke my ribs. But even then I was on the trainer like 6 days later, I think. Which, which, 0 my gosh, that was actually a really hard time. It was like not being able to cycle and I needed to because I was still training for round and I really wanted to, right? And so like, uh, getting on the train, like anybody knows, like trainers, just horrible. I hate writing my trainer. I just, I get on it. I know I just do it because I know I should, but I just hate every bone and I eat whatever I do, watch TV, listen to music the whole time. I just hate it. Yeah, I don't know why I hate it so much, but, but, but yeah, when I broke, when I had that breath and broke in my ribs, I think I was on a trainer for like 33 solid months.

And I was trying to like train for rams. So I was on a trainer for like 4 or 5 hours, 4 or 5 hours session, every night, and then usually like 2 hours, but I, but I do at least one, like, 45 hours session, which, which on my train was just, it's just horrible for so many reasons. can't imagine. Yeah, it's just, it's boredom, crazy making, and like, it's, you know, it's just so different than riding a bike, right? So, um, yeah, so that was my real breed is because of accidents or, uh, crashes. Um,

And then last question. Uh, what 3 words do you choose to describe yourself as a cyclist?

Um, I'd describe myself as sort of a journeyman right now, I guess. I don't know… Adventurer... And slightly addicted.

Awesome. Thank you, John.

Yeah. That's been a really great interview. Yeah.